No more consoles?


#21

Bandwidth restrictions and general network limitations are a hassle, but not my main concern with streaming games as they’re something that I can predict improvement in. My major concern is business principles being applied to cloud computing.

With a console/PC, you have a guaranteed allotment of processing power which allows for a certain level of performance. With a subscription-based cloud computing model, it would be economically crazy for the provider to have an infrastructure that can provide that to every single customer simultaneously - you’ll work on the basis of average performance requirements across your userbase and provide some statistical leeway. It’s not like any web company has enough server capacity to service everyone on the globe simultaneously.

That’ll work decently at most times, but I have concerns.

Logically you’ll have local processing points, say per country or broader region - otherwise the sheer physical limitations on response times grow too considerable. This means that at certain hours of the day you’re going to have higher draw on the same equipment as in a single region, you’ll have more people playing at certain times. Cost-cutting here could have an impact on the quality of service you receive at the times you want to play most. What about holidays, Christmas etc.? Higher demand, more struggle to cope. Frustrating if your computer works worse exactly when you need it and can use it.

A new, popular game is released, servers can struggle. Imagine if that increased demand meant that EVERY game performed worse, because the hardware itself was being divided too thin across too many people.

Where we’ve tested large networking solutions and are improving them rapidly, cloud computing isn’t something that (so far as I’m aware) has been implemented to the scale that would involve. I’m a little skeptical.


#22

I see your points, but feel they are valid for todays models. Scaleability and virualisation are the buzz word now in server solutions for cloud networks, and can only again improve. And yes, I agree. to service certain customers, regions the performance levels would be managed. But then again, hardware technology to deliver and manage this is also going to continue to grow. As moores law fitters out over the coming years, new solutions weill develop. Again, given the time frame I dont see these as obstacles that could be overcome or certainly theoritically and in design are probably alreay solveable.


#23

Certainly, the technology and the logistical back-end for this kind of cloud computing provision is something we can do, and our solutions will only improve with time. I don’t doubt this is the future, I just have concerns over how bad the teething problems may be. Particularly as gaming is fairly hardware intensive and requirements ‘tend’ to scale with technological improvements.

I suppose I’m wary of the inherent ‘push-pull’ between a customer wanting to always be able to use the computing power that they’re paying for, and the providing company optimising capacity to minimise costs while providing an ‘acceptable average’ service.

I rush to note, this isn’t an area where I claim any expertise, so it may be that my perspective isn’t particularly valid. I’m more of an interested but nervous bystander.


#24

SO EA CEO. live on stage at EA Play (pre E3 Event) stating quite categorically that they are investing and will be tech demoing cloud stream gaming. A few years off being marketable though he says.


#25

i dislike the idea of consoles going away as with a streaming service you are at the behest of said service if they go under or you get hack/banned or what have you you loose access to games you payed for or renting. were as if sony say exploded today i still have my PS4 and discs that i can pop in and still play regardless of the company being alive or being dicks.

Plus if theses streaming services are to run on smart TVs thats awful as youtube for example is always being updated on smart TVs and manufactures or youtube don’t or wont keep the app up to date on older systems so you loose access to that app.Now imagine you loose access to your EA libary because EA update the app for what ever reason and you have a very nice but a few years old Samsung and they arn’t updating that model anymore and the app and the TV OS become incompatible sucks right.


#26

I hear ya Renoroony.

Hackers, with the service being cloud based I imagine hacking be a bit tougher so lets not worry about you getting banned ok?

But yeah if a company goes bust, then you have lost access to the service. So you no longer pay for that service.

I agree with your view, think someone mentioned it before, they like to own things. Shiny boxes and discs. But then again, thats an argument from where we have come from and is the aged old music streaming argument. Not saying its right or wrong. But in the pursuit of progress, these companies unfortunately see a wider, bigger dare say younger audience who are more accustomed to things on the go?

I think app services on TV are becoming more the norm. And updating them are becoming more of a required security aspect than a convenient feature. And I am sure the mega impressive console would be replaced with the little USB dongle that you can buy to allow always updated software/streaming requirements particularly if your using an older TV.

We dont have to like it Reno. But I am sure that it will come, we will moan about it and remember the good ole console days and soon just adapt and enjoy having a blast of BF 666 on our TV then jumping on the bus and continuing to Knife @Angelclaws while we are on the bus (no wait, maybe in the self driving taxi?).


#27

Nah, we’ll be in AI-controlled drone taxis by then!

Would be handy for getting out to mine though :smiley:


#28

Curious, who’s tried streaming games, and what was your experience, with what games?

I’ve had no luck with anything real-time, the input latency is too great, and that includes where i’m only streaming over copper in my own home. I’ve tried Arma, Fallout (3 or New Vegas rather than 4), ARK, minecraft, and very briefly whichever total war game it was at the time (shogun 2 or Rome 2 i guess) and it just didn’t work. FM is great, because everything is at your speed, and Civ sort of works, though it can be difficult to track what’s happening. For the slower stuff it’s feasible, but real time was a complete no go.

Also, this is as good a thread as any, people need to stop saying fucking ‘cloud’ before everything like it makes them sound ‘current’. Unless you’ve ever known the physical location/specification of whatever server you’re using, you’ve always been using ‘cloud-based’ stuff. As someone working on an enterprise cloud platform (which is of course identical to the non-cloud platform, only newer and mroe expensive), it’s a clusterfuck of marketing so that people without any understanding can act like they know what the fuck they’re talking about because they want to be paid for their ignorance. Pack it the fuck in. Don’t get me started on the cunts that insist on having ‘private clouds’ but really just have ‘a server’ somewhere.

That may sound a bit ‘the braying of the plebians disturbs me!’ but seriously, it’s just a marketing ploy, it’s been enough years, folks need to get learnt or stfu.


#29

So what you’re saying is we’re all in the cloud which makes us the cloud and makes the cloud us so we’re one with the cloud and the performance overheads allow us to synergize backwards overflow, maximising the reverse funnel profitability and ensuring future proofed reliability and consumer confidence?

I’ll have 3 clouds please!


#30

@adrock I tried Playstation thingy I think It was to stream a game, just didnt work, my net was too slow. But I did play MGS V and Fifa from my Playstation streamed to my Sony Phone. Worked like a charm. But then it was not streaming from the “cloud”. Thats the one thing I do miss from moving to samsung is pluggin my phone into its adapter and connecting the Playstation Joy pad and playing games while I have a dump! Probably the last time I used my PS properly as well.


#31

I entirely understand, and apologise sincerely for my obtuse and repeated clouding.

I sympathise, for what it’s worth. I do get a bit steaming with rage when people start going on about higher clock rates making for better-performing CPUs. Intel can fuck themselves a thousand times over for that particular beauty of misdirection.


#32

I was all ready to write up a big response last night about how the earlier estimates for when this sort of platform would be widely available are vastly over stated since large parts of the US are on Sattelite, dialup or <3mbps internet connections but according to several survey sites I found this is not the case. Also according to several UK surveys the average UK speed is something like 25mbps dl / 11mbps ul.

That shut me right up becuase despite the fact that I flat out refuse to accept those numbers are indicative of reality, I have literally no evidence aside from annecodotal and a vehment personal refusal to accept it to challenge it.

But, being a typical stubborn bellend I’m going to continue to tow the line that this kind of system is an example of technology exceeding the means of those it is aimed at - I just don’t believe that fast enough, affordable, stable internet connections are prevalent enough in even the UK for this sort of system to be widely adoptable even in the next 10 years outside of the biggest cities. I live less than 5 miles from Manchester city centre and the main road I live on had 2 broadband providers until the last three months with BT being the fastest at 61mpbs with only business lines offering more than that until literally this month where ‘6 time faster’ internet has been offered by BT ‘soon’.

15/20 years providing the money going in to internet infastructure continues to flow and schedules continue to progress at a swift pace then, yeah, this will be viable to a lot of people. Before then? Nope. Don’t believe it’ll be largely adopted or even adoptable even if it does come out. Oh, and there is the point made several times about reluctance to adopt even from those who have the means - we like our gadgets and tatt.

/incoherent rant


#33

For what it’s worth, I found that rant highly coherent.

I was a little puzzled what “<3 mbps” internet connections were for a moment there. I’m as fond of bits as any man, but it seemed a little out of context.


#34

you can still do that mate just need a modded APK for the app and install it on ya phone i was looking into moving from a sony to Samsung my self


#35

i’m sorry Vred, you appear to be dead to me. that’s a shame :frowning: I hope you recover swiftly from whatever made you do that…

That’s quite alright DM, i have a similar thing when people insist on referring to any file transfer as ‘downloading’, or when people say ‘this is a virtual server, you work in virtualisation, re-install my linux OS’ and i have to explain they need to speak to the linux team, and they ask why, and i ask them if they ever went to the ‘physicalisation team’ to get linux installed on their physical servers and they think i’m being facetious or don’t understand, but actually they’re just being ignorant cunts. Get learnt, cunts.

Ah Vred, i see you’ve recovered from your clouditis! I think latency is more the issue than bandwidth but i see your point. It’s also worth noting the UK isn’t indicative of broadband, and for all the 4g and 5g nonsense; if there aren’t enough people to make it profitable putting up a tower to cover the area they live in, then they have to do without, same with putting in cabinets for fiber/dsl. Those people will still want to game, still be willing to spend money on doing so, and still have people willing to give them what they want in exchange for money. Where’s the demand for a local-hardware-free streamed service?

And yeah at the end of the day, what’s the benefit you’re trying to sell to people that you think will make them abandon what they already have and like (assuming people who have consoles and don’t use them aren’t the target market). How do you keep hardware partners on-side when they’re no longer getting consumer sales? How do you stop them throwing their support behind a physical console alternative?

Someone working on behalf of some cloud provider has talked a bunch of stuff up to some CEOs and directors and convinced them that they could make money if they agreed with what that person says, so they’re parroting it. None of these people have anything to do with gaming though, they’re managers of a stock or share price, on behalf of their shareholders. The games/hardware development is the marketing they use to try and increase the share price, and it’s done by entirely different people. Right now they’re helping increase the share price (or company value for unlisted companies) that are working in related technologies, because it’s very low risk to do so and then expect reciprocation down the line, because all you’ve got to do is read a pre-prepared statement then wait and see.


#36

Not read this, but caught my eye. Will read later.

https://www.cnet.com/g00/news/i-saw-a-live-demo-of-eas-new-cloud-gaming-service-and-it-totally-works/?i10c.encReferrer=&i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=14


#37

Derp, meant 3MB/s / 30mbps.

Edit: And derped again realising you probably meant ‘<3’…:upside_down_face:


#38

EA Technical dude on their current trial.

Currently, with the compression the company is using to stream game data to a home, cloud gaming requires 20 megabits per second speeds. As of last year, that’s higher than the average internet connection speed in the United States. A survey last year put that at 18.7 megabits per second, but it also showed that speeds had increased by 22 percent over the previous year.

And Moss said that new compression will lower that requirement. High internet speeds are an issue everywhere, not just in the U.S., but Moss thinks that won’t be a problem soon.

“I think people are underestimating how soon this will happen,” Moss said. “There are two trends driving this. Number one is cloud capabilities. There is amazing public cloud investment happening. The second trend is 5G. When 5G comes, and it is coming fast, it’s going to make this a no-brainer. We will have very high bandwidth and very low latency.


#39

…and really shite coverage.


#40

But also said they deep working on new consoles… Yes… consoles.